Collision Types & Nav Points

[Skyfaller]

There are so many places to fall through that are not obvious it is not funny.
I wonder if there is a way we can fix the map?

I can answer that for you. It is not the engine that is to blame for falling through floors, it is the collision info that comes with the BWDs included in the AREx files. I had the same problem when I made some Mercnet missions; either crashing through invisible walls or just going right through the objects.

There are many different collision types;

Orthrec,
Allpoly,
Sphere,
Ground,
None,
World,

Each has a different effect. I don't know EXACTLY what ALL of them do, but I have a good concept.

Kell, may I ask you to compile some sample BWD's with different collision types? The files should be identical except for the collision type. Then either post them here, and I will analyse them, or try to find the differences yourself. Thanks.

Would we be able to add AI for GBL or enemy drop points for NetMech?

[Col.Kell]

I can't promise that I will be able to get a .WLD text file converted to a BWD for 31cc, the tools used for doing this are ment for Mercs.
You do have Mercnet or Mercs if I recall? If so, no problem. I can get you some sample BWDs.

Would we be able to add AI for GBL or enemy drop points for NetMech?

I am a little bit confused by what you are trying to say. When you say GBL, do you mean ADD an additional mech/vehicle/aircraft star in a singleplayer scenario? If so, then I can say it is possible but not practical.
You see, you can't just include an xxxxENSx.BWD file into the SCN1.BWD and have more enemies, you also have to add the xxxxSTxx file
(xxxxST01 is always the human player and his star in single player, then the AI would be xxxxST11, xxxxST21, xxxxST31, etc.. Mech/aircraft/vehicle gamepiece BWDs are assigned to xxxxSTxx files.) And then you would have to include the DROP POINT for the star (sorry I can't remember the name of this file), and not only that, but since you have added a new mech star to the level, you also have to add mission objectives for that new star in the SCN1 file, otherwise you just get this "dumb" mech that sits around and does nothing.

And Netmech, do you mean add AI or add DROP POINTS? AI (as long as it is not an AI mech) you can include into a Netmech game with human players. I don't know why AI mechs don't work when there is more than one human player, many Mercnet compilers have been wondering about this for almost a decade.

Could you clarify what you mean by "adding drop points in netmech"? I am a little lost.

[Skyfaller]

I can't promise that I will be able to get a .WLD text file converted to a BWD for 31cc, the tools used for doing this are ment for Mercs.
You do have Mercnet or Mercs if I recall? If so, no problem. I can get you some sample BWDs.

Yes, compiling these files for Mercs should do fine. Either it is the same format, or it will give us a good indication of where to look.
Do you have some documentation that indicates what the collision do exactly? My guess for the collision tests would be:

Orthrec: tests objects as cuboids,
Allpoly: tests all polygons,
Sphere: tests the sphere surrounding an objects
Ground: probably means that this object is treated as a ground, meaning mechs are always on top of it,
None: no collision tests, a ghost object that can't be shot, vehicles pass thorugh it,
World: dunno.

And Netmech, do you mean add AI or add DROP POINTS? AI (as long as it is not an AI mech) you can include into a Netmech game with human players. I don't know why AI mechs don't work when there is more than one human player, many Mercnet compilers have been wondering about this for almost a decade.

Could you clarify what you mean by "adding drop points in netmech"? I am a little lost.

AFAIK, for playing this map in NetMech, we would need drop points that would define where human adversaries would drop. I don't want to add AI players to NetMech. Did you ever change drop points successfully for NetMech?

Thanks for your help with this.

[Sir MMPD Radick]

I have... but that was a fluke...
also changed the nav points...

I can provide a modified setubal if you like.

[Col.Kell]

I'm back!

I could have gotten the results yesterday, but I didn't. About 2 hours after my last post I got sick from food poisoning and was vomiting all day.

But here is what I came up with on my results and recorded on a text file;

Collision Results;

Pedistal Arena - Set to ground, type: terrain.
No collision whatsoever.

Wrecked Ship - Set to Orthorec, type: None
collision streches from tallest point to lowest, and longest point to opposite end of shape. Mech can walk on top of Wrecked Ship. Unable to enter inside.

Spheroid Dropship - Set to Sphere, mech almost "sticks" to the dropship when on top of it. Mech cannot walk on it.

Crystal - Set to Orthorec, type: Terrain
collision is same as Wrecked Ship. Mech is able to walk on top of crystal.

Draconis Mech Carrier - Set to Allpoly, type: None.
Collision is wraped up around every detail in the shape. In other words, the shape itself is the collision. Mech is unable to walk on carrier. Great collision mode for shapes a mech may walk under.

Mountain Hill - Set to Ground, type: Terrain.
Nothing out of the ordinary, the very same thing you would normaly notice when you are on a hill; you can walk on it.

smoke - Set to Allpoly, type: Flame.
You are able to walk through the smoke.

I have been experementing with collision codes that would be appropriate for that large cave, it needs to be completely normal, just like the Cavern you would see on the Graus map on netmech. I am having trouble finding the correct combination of codes that let you walk on the shape, while at the same time have the polygons of the shape connect the collision together.

I have not changed drop points in a scenario, but you can and it is easy. There are the XYZ coordinates in the drop point BWD, you can change them and drop to a different location. There is also a "multiplyer" character that comes with XYZ coordinates, which dramaticaly effects the amount of change of location if a multiplyer is assigned.

Orthrec: tests objects as cuboids,
Allpoly: tests all polygons,
Sphere: tests the sphere surrounding an objects
Ground: probably means that this object is treated as a ground, meaning mechs are always on top of it,
None: no collision tests, a ghost object that can't be shot, vehicles pass thorugh it,
World: dunno.

Orthrec is a rectangular collision. Much like how the Wrecked Ship's collision is discribed.
The thing about these collision modes is that they don't have the "final say-so" about the effects of the collision. They are more like "helping" factors. (Most of the time) The main factor in the collisions is the OBJECT TYPE. For example, the smoke is defined as a "FLAME" type. No matter what collision code you set it to, you will always go through it.
But I don't have all the answers, I am scratching my head in wonder why something that seems so obvious actualy does something completely opposite.

[Skyfaller]

Kell: If you set the different collision types, how does it affect the BWD exactly? (Edit: no longer needed, since MMPD gave up, see below)

@MMPD: How far did you get with your modded Setubal? Does it work in NetMech, or what changes did you make?

Is anything else missing to getting the Mineshaft mission to run in NetMech?

[Sir MMPD Radick]

Well, I was able to get everything from the Mineshaft into setubal except for the main scn file if i remember correctly.
The problem is that the formats are different. So in order to get it in netmech properly I need to figure out what the differences are exactly.
Pretty much at that point I gave up since I had another project I had to work on.

The main changes to the view of setubal at the present state are superficial the only noticeable changes are ghost nav points which only certain players are actually able to see, and altered drop zones.
O yah.. and the weather changes during the mission every few minutes....

Also some ghost walls here and there..

[Skyfaller]

Thanks for the info, Kell and MMPD.

Maybe one day, this mission will be supported in MechVM. So I suppose I can wait until that.

[Col.Kell]

Here is some more info on the topic, in hex form;

Collision_Type.png (3.23 KiB) Viewed 9478 times

The "FE FF 05" highlighted in blue tells the sim what the collision behavior is of a specific object.
TAKE HEED when you change the FE or FF part in it, as the game can crash when you do this. The 05 part in here has a tremendous effect on the collision. Don't know much on it, but now you know where the numbers are.

[Skyfaller]

Good work!

Do you have any idea what collision detection algorithms the values select?